SETUP
My room is 13’ x 23’ x 7.5’ built and tuned for two channel audio. I placed the speakers’ front baffles at a distance of 5’ from the head wall and 2’ from the side wall, the centers of the speakers right at 8’ apart. I toed them in to slightly wide of each respective ear. They sat at the usual listening distance for larger floor standing speakers of 12’ from my ears. I was pleasantly surprised at the expansiveness of the soundstage, which was grander than with any other speaker of the Nimbus’s height. The solidity across the soundstage also struck me as being exemplary.
The fancy supplied spikes were not terribly thick and made of brass. Consequently when I attempted to rock the speaker on one corner to turn it for positioning I broke the spike clean off! That’s a terrific way to impress a manufacturer! Ryan took it in stride, commenting that he would replace them with steel spikes as he found the brass too soft for the job. I suggested he supply a set of 8 all of standard length of his choosing, but include another four approximately ¼” shorter to be alternatively used in the rear positions so that I could experiment with front baffle adjustment. The speaker is designed for vertical placement, however, I have found that adjusting the baffle slightly can be quite pleasing and to some could be preferable. Note that this is not an included accessory of the Nimbus White. I am still waiting for the replacement spikes, a case of looser time frame surrounding fulfillment by Vapor Audio. In the meantime I turned to my alternative spike, the hard rubber hockey puck, which, truthfully, has worked as well across the board as most spikes.
The Legacy Audio XTREME HD Subwoofers remained in their positions in the front left and right corners of the room. The Nimbus is front ported and as such would have far less interaction between the subs than if rear ported. The bass produced by the Nimbus White is so formidable that I did not feel the need to turn on the subs during the review period regardless of the components comprising the rest of the system.
POTENCY AND ELEGANCE
The first system I established had at the head the Musical Fidelity M1CDT Transport and V90-DAC, a terrifically satisfying combination for Redbook. In addition I alternated between disc and Sonos output via coaxial digital link to the V90-DAC. The use of both of these sources necessitated switching the input cable to the V90, as it has only one digital coaxial input. The minor inconvenience was warranted, as the DAC was brilliant for both CD and streaming audio playback. I am enthralled at the level of definition and ease possible at this price point in a DAC! Truly, if one pays attention to the remainder of the system this combination of transport and DAC can service a shockingly high quality rig without embarrassment. Also in use were the Pass Labs XP-20 Preamplifier and the Wells Audio Innamorata Amplifier, a solid-state design. Cabling was from the Silent Source “The Music Reference” line.
This was the system Ryan heard when he set up the speakers, and it must have been impressive enough for him to reflexively reach for his laptop and play some of his favorite evaluation pieces via the USB input of the V90-DAC. Even though the files were not DSD the speakers were vastly open sounding, reminding me of the demos I have heard of the Wilson Maxx 3 speaker. That may seem like an absurd comparison, but I assure you it is not as the Nimbus White has the DNA of a super-speaker. Words which come to mind to describe the performance of the Nimbus White are potency and elegance, strong with a high degree of refinement.
WHAT ARE YOU PLAYING ON MY AUDIO SYSTEM?
Ryan pulled out the music he uses to assess speakers; a staple of his demo list is anything by Trent Reznor and Nine Inch Nails. One of the most curious pieces of music to be played was by the obtusely named Israeli Psytrance/Electronica duo Infected Mushroom. This pulsating, techno-noise laced assault is the antithesis of a gentle ballad or petite solo instrumental – and that is precisely the point. This genre of music features extremely difficult transitions, intense dynamic passages, a collage of instruments which if not sorted out reduces to nagging noise. Just as with the issue of dynamically compressed music, so also with this genre it becomes clear that most audiophile speakers can’t begin to handle such speed and intensity and are far better off being fed easy stuff like wafting vocals and soothing chamber music.
Manufacturers of speakers like my room because it’s tight, not an echo chamber. They can’t seem to resist pushing their speakers hard. Ryan chose the psytrance/electronica genre to demo the speakers because it is far, far more difficult to hide a speaker’s limitations when being pushed to its limits. Try listening to music at high decibel levels that has bursts of tones, bomb-like blasts of bass, split second pulses of sound. With your garden-variety audiophile speaker you will get something ugly. With the Nimbus White you get something interesting because it’s not just noise, it’s patterned, purposed bursts and silences. It’s not what I would put on for a relaxing afternoon’s listening, but I have added it to my list of artists for assessment because in one moment a speaker’s warts can be exposed.
If you have read my work in the past you know what is coming – that’s right, Paul McCartney and the Wings’ “Live and Let Die” from the Best of Bond collection. This song is an intended mess, a floosy of an orchestrated piece so raucous that at higher listening levels one wishes to cover their ears, which is precisely why I use it! Only the best speakers can make it seem palatable. The Nimbus White is so fast, so nano-quick that every electronic pulse, every whistle, every orchestral lurch is rendered cleanly. All the more, this is done with more tonal sensitivity than with any other speaker I have used. Only the best in speakers can pull off such a feat.
I have been rifling through my collection to play arduous, difficult pieces in an effort to find the boundaries of the Nimbus’s performance. Those boundaries lay far beyond fine speakers like the Von Schweikert VR-4SR MII, Tannoy Glenaire, Wilson Benesch Curve, and Salk Soundscape 10 to name a few all of which I reviewed previously and all of which cost more than the Nimbus White. Just recently I wrote of the Legacy Audio Whisper Clarity Edition that it performs in the $75K class of speakers. I now add to it the Nimbus White, which also deserves that designation.
IN COMPARISON TO THE LEGACY AUDIO WHISPER CLARITY EDITION
A formidable speaker which I have had a hand in developing, the Legacy Audio Whisper Clarity Edition, has been a rich performer in my room. The Whisper and Nimbus seen side by side are a contrast in design principles and execution. The Whisper is made to sum the fields of several drivers at the listener’s position as it offers four midrange and two sets of coupled bass drivers. The size of the midranges at 6” and bass drivers at 15” are identical to the Nimbus. The twin AMT tweeter array of the Whisper differs predominantly in the presence of an additional 1” super tweeter.
However, there the similarities end. The Whisper uses silver woven graphite midrange cones while the Nimbus uses ceramic cones, the Whisper sums four midranges while the Nimbus sums half as many, (they’re both crossed at the same frequency). The Whisper stacks 15” bass drivers in an open baffle design while the Nimbus sets the single 15” into a ported cabinet with front slot loading.
The sound differential between these two speakers is as distinct as their appearance. I never used to think of the Whisper as a speaker utilizing arrays of drivers, perhaps because the Whisper’s arrays are not sequenced in a line, as is the case typically with Line Array speakers. But the Whisper using sets of groups of drivers sounds quite similar to a line array mimicking the spaciousness of a panel speaker. It is executed so well that even though coherency is lost through the use of multiple drivers the speaker still sounds extremely accurate.
The Nimbus White is altogether different in terms of definition and coherency. The integration of the drivers is so seamless that it reminds me of the Tannoy concentric driver design, but with greater capacity to render fine details top to bottom. The Whisper Clarity Edition sounds vast as a live concert stage, while the Nimbus White is fantastically intimate as though sitting in the studio with the recording artist.
I would never mistake the Whisper Clarity Edition for a boxy sound like an Audio Note speaker, or a small floor standing speaker like Wharfedale Opus 2-3. It could be considered to blend more forgiving brands of speakers like Vandersteen or Sonus Faber with the panel sensibilities of Magneplanar or Eminent Technology. Think huge, immersive and fairly easy to accessorize with a wide range of components. The Nimbus, however, is extraordinarily tight, razor sharp in definition, with capacity to reveal nuances like dialing up a microscope to a new power of magnification. Think Magico, YG Acoustics, Zellaton, Venture Audio, Rockport, Raidho, or Wilson speakers but at a fraction of the price. You may say that level of sound quality cannot be had for $10K, but you would be wrong – the Nimbus White exists to challenge the comfortable assumptions of the speaker world, and it does so extremely well.
- ← Previous page
- (Page 5 of 6)
- Next page →
Thanks for the heartfelt words, Doug! Nimbus is like more like a sculpture for me to build; it is NOT a box. When others enjoy what I build, that makes the time spent worthwhile. Thanks again!
I, like many of your other readers, I’m sure, have followed the travails of the many who have posted on the various fora regarding what can only be described as the minefield of the order/delivery process for these speakers.
You state in your review that you purchased a demo pair so that certainly implies that they were already built when you spoke up for them and even then, there were delays and periods of silence in finally taking possession.
So the clock is now ticking as regards your most recent order. In fairness to all, I hope you will be as forthcoming with updates and status reports for these as you were in this review.
I, for one, have never laid eyes or ears on the Vapor line but it seems a bloody shame that so many “shenanigans” seem to be part and parcel with the procurement process.
I sincerely hope they are worth the trouble.
Alan,
God’s Blessings to you,
I can neither absolutely verify, nor falsify claims made online. I considered the forum complaints – no, I do not have time to read every last one, nor the inclination – when I contemplated writing the article. It was the reason I specifically discussed the structure and methods of the company. It should be obvious to all by now that 1. Vapor doesn’t operate like a regular speaker company, and 2. it doesn’t build a speaker at a valuation point like a regular speaker company.
Perhaps if I share a bit more about the current project people can understand Ryan and Vapor Audio better. Here’s an update: I was initially looking to have the Joule White in Brazilian Rosewood, as per Ryan’s recommendation. About four weeks into the process Ryan said he would like to change it to Saeple. This was shocking to me initially, as I had my heart/mind set on the Rosewood. I imagined it in the room, prepared for it. Now, in a moment he was suggesting something quite different.
So, was that a problem? Did it mean he was running roughshod over my wishes or that he didn’t listen to me? Perhaps I should not give an inch, and take high offense that he “changed the plan” on me, then go online and complain. I decided to give Ryan an ear, and by the time we were done talking, even though I emotionally wasn’t there yet, decided to trust him on the color scheme. Now, two weeks later, I’m there emotionally and believe the change will be good.
I share this because Vapor Audio truly seems to be a custom speaker shop, not a “crank out the basic template” factory. My wife has a small high end costume jewelry business called Splendor by Connie Schroeder (Yes, that is a shameless plug because I am very proud of her!), and she would be driven nuts to produce myriads of cookie cutter products. She makes nearly every piece unique. I see Ryan similarly; he wants each speaker to be a creation, an expression of artistry and excellence. Engaging with a company like this is quite different than walking into a B&M audio shop and buying a speaker. If the audiophile doesn’t want to have any inconveniences involved in obtaining a custom speaker, then they should not buy a Vapor Audio speaker. They can go and spend two to four times as much to buy a speaker on a perfectly tracked timeline for delivery which will have a very good chance of sounding worse.
I do feel for people who engaged with Vapor early thinking there would be hard timelines, no potential disappointments, etc. They likely have a very different view of Vapor. OTOH, there are some truly callow, demanding, quite unreasonable people who will tell only half the story online, and who when they get it stuck in their craw will become quite vengeful in an attempt to hurt the manufacturer. I sometimes hear the horror stories from manufacturers who must tolerate customers from Hell, even when the manufacturer has gone far beyond reason to satisfy the customer. The manufacturers swallow their anger and frustration rather than damn the customer publicly, for they fear it will hurt their business more than just letting it go.
So, Alan, I am going to cut this right down the middle; Vapor operates in a fashion which disgruntles certain audiophiles, and conversely there are certain PITA audiophiles who should never buy a speaker from any company which they cannot receive reassurance, nearly down to the minute.
I chose to largely ignore any controversies in forums for that reason, for the same reason I prefer not to walk into quicksand. I shared my experience candidly so that others can weigh it for themselves. I have never been a fan of the politics involved in my hobbies, so don’t hold your breath waiting for me to resolve such issues. 🙂
Blessings,
Douglas Schroeder
Hi Doug,
Reading your review almost made me blush. You put into words exactly how I felt when Ryan and I first powered up Nimbus White. It was without a doubt the most amazing audio experience I’d had to that time. Then, Joule White happened . . .
I just want to point out that while I do handle Arte Forma in the US, I’m only designing a single amplifier for Arte Forma. Norman Yang’s team in Formosa is responsible for their excellent lineup. I’ve only consulted with them on a few things related to electrical engineering questions.
I heard both the Nimbus and the Joule at the last Rockey mountain show. The Nimbus was being driven by a single ended tube amp while the Joule was driven by a solid state amp. The Nimbus with tubes was much better sounding than the Joule. The Nimbus with the tube amp had a very livefeel to it while the Joule simply sounded on the dull side. If I was in the market for a speaker I would definitely consider the Nimbus but not the Joule. I think it is a mistake to by a speaker that you have not listened to. By the way I have Maggie 3.6 driven by a Shindo preamp and two Berning ZH-270 power amps. This combo is still the best I have ever heard but the Nimbus with tubes is close
Alan Hendler
Peter and Alan,
God’s Joy to you Gentlemen,
Peter, thank you for your clarification; sometimes the seemingly small assumptions or terms are misused, leading to great confusion. I have attempted an editorial fix for the article since this has been brought to my attention.
Alan H, I do not doubt your experience; the sound caliber of the Vapor speakers are such that they dramatically show the nature of the gear ahead of them. In addition, the delights of show goers varies incredibly. I might have concluded the same as you had I heard the two speakers set up as they were. In fact I had heard similar comments from others, so your helpful comment has already been factored into my decision.
Knowing what a Vapor speaker can do in terms of varying sound with different electronics, and having walked through in careful discussion every aspect of the differences in design, construction and performance between the Nimbus and Joule with Ryan, I am pretty confident that I am making the right move, especially since upper end drivers from the RAAL and Accuton lines are employed in the Joule White. You notice also that Peter alludes in his post above to the Joule being superior holistically. Who knows? You may be right, but I don’t think so. 🙂
You have lovely pre/amplification; I am imagining what it would sound like with the King Sound King III ESL. You might wish to read my thought provoking reviews of the King and then the King III, both of which are found on this website. Brace yourself for my assessment of other panels as compared to the KingIII.
Blessings,
Douglas Schroeder
As a current owner of the Joule Whites I believe you will be MORE than satisfied with your decision.
The best thing that I can say about them is that when people hear them they don’t want to leave. It’s always oh, just play one more song which leads to just one more song and one more song. Enjoy!
Chuck,
God’s Joy to you,
Thanks! I don’t think I’m making a mistake, either! It would be awfully difficult to improve upon the driver set across the board and with the same designer end up with a poorer speaker. That’s just not going to happen. Even mass marketed speaker manufacturers can easily improve upon their models as the line goes higher. So, when Ryan indicates the Joule White is perceptually about 30% better, I do not find that difficult to believe.
Part of the problem is that the Nimbus is so fantastically visually appealing that people begin to think it must sound better. I find myself so enamored not just of the sound, but also the appearance that it is hard to contemplate selling it. But one does not achieve greater things by sitting with the status quo, however, lovely it may be.
Blessings,
Douglas Schroeder
First off, thank you so much Doug for the thoughtful and thorough review! Also thanks to Dagogo for making it all possible. Being an outsider in the audio World, it’s a bit stressful trusting people you don’t know to convey to the World what your creations are all about. But those worries proved unfounded, the experience with Doug and Dagogo could not have been better.
About the Joule at RMAF, when that side of the room was working properly they sounded quite nice if a bit thin. But we had many equipment failures, and ended up chasing our tails for the better part of the weekend. However, the pair of Joule that went to the show had 30 seconds, literally, of time on them before arrival. And no voicing had been done at all. When we got them back home we found the midrange was around 2-3db too hot, so the final product sounds much different than what was at the show. We’ll leave it to Doug to after he receives his pair to let people know just how they compare.
Hi
Great looking speaker, no questioning that. Bet they sound as good also. Can these compare with brands like Magico, WilsonSasha, Tad or other known brands? Will try and get me one pair of these…Do you consider these to be ” first generation” Nimbus, since they are quite new, and will they improve even more within the next year? I miss a stand where it would be able to adjust the tilting/angle of the speaker, since not all floors a 100% horizontal. Is that something you have considered?
I was at the audio show in Denver and can attest to Ryan’s frustration with the equipment problems powering the Joules so evaluating that speaker at that show is not a fair depiction of the speakers potential. I am sure Doug the reviewer will play with a lot of stuff to get the best sound possible in his room which will be nothing short of spectacular . I have my Cirrus back at Vapor to have a base unit designed for them so I can get to (I hope) 85 – 90% of what the joule will sound like… I was quite enamored with the look and sound of the Nimbus at the show and if the Joule is better whew… As with most boutique companies be patient and be rewarded…
So Doug, did you like the speaker? Just kidding. I too thought the Nimbus performance/price ratio was off the charts as evidenced in my Newport Beach show report. Constantine gave you the long straw for the review, so I live vicariously from your review.
Cheers,
Paul
Runi, Michael,
God’s Peace to you both,
Regarding whether the Nimbus White can compare with brands like Magico, Wilson, etc. – all speakers can be compared, as we well know. I assume you mean “compared favorably,” and though I have not done so directly I would answer yes. I have heard Magico, Wilson, TAD, etc. and the Nimbus White while not perhaps made from an in-house design process is made from an extreme performance perspective. As such it performs way past it’s price point, and I believe into the territory of these other speaker brands. Whether one would consider it superior is a subjective judgment, but it would not be a foolish thought to consider the Nimbus White when thinking of these other speakers.
Like many other manufacturers the design is subject to running changes, and I assume Ryan will incorporate them. This question is best directed to Vapor Audio, as I do not wish to speak for the company regarding design particulars which may or may not come about. I know one thing; an audiophile can pine for the “next version,” forever and never acquire the fantastic products of a manufacturer. To do so with the Nimbus White at such prices would, imo, be very short-sighted.
Finally, the speaker has adjustable spikes, as with nearly every quality floor standing speaker.
Michael, that sounds like a thrilling update to get an accompanying bass module! Yes, the Nimbus is a stunner, but sonically I fully expect it to be fairly easily surpassed by the Joule. I have learned not to place limits on what I expect can happen in terms of performance; there have been too many times that the doubt, “It can’t get much better than this,” has been shattered by a new product/model.
Blessings,
Douglas Schroeder
Pete/Ryan: congratulations – have been out of audio for quite a while but wanted to say “GREAT!” on Vapor and becoming successful in the hobby.
Cheers / Robert (old PE Board/inDIYana/Iowa guy)
Hi Doug,
So how do you compare this speaker to the Giya G1, in terms of dynamics, imaging, and naturality among other attributes?
Thanks,
Faisal
Faisal,
God’s Peace to you,
In brief, I would not compare many speakers to the Vivid speakers, as they are exquisite. I would, however, compare the Vapor speakers to the Vivid. I cannot speak definitively about it, as I have not had both in my room. From hearing the Vivid line at various shows I would suggest that many of the characteristics of superior sound found in the Vivid brand are also present in the Vapor brand.
Generally, I would rate them both as superb in terms of micro dynamics, but the Nimbus White superior in terms of macrodynamics. As regards imaging, the Giya G1 model is better only because the Nimbus White incorporates dual Mids; in this regard the G1 would be more closely matched with the Joule White. “Natural” is a fairly nebulous term when it comes to audiophile, however, I have heard them both sound convincing in terms of fooling the ear into thinking it is hearing a live event.
Additionally, the Nimbus White is the best dynamic speaker I have used to date in terms of imitating the speed, coherence and scale of a panel speaker like the King Sound King III.
Perhaps you would also like to reach out to Ed Momkus of Dagogo, as he has the Giya G1, I believe.
Blessings,
Douglas Schroeder
What a GREAT review!
I loved every line of it.
I now see that I’m no different then others, still waiting for Ryans reply to my e-mail.
I was just about to give up and move to the two or three other candidates when I read this review that I decided to wait a bit longer…
However, I am using a pair of VTL MB-125 monoblocks.
These puppies run at 55W in triod and 100W in tetrode.
(The triod is greatly better and my end choice).
So my concern is would my VTL’s be enough??
After all, a 15″ driver is not child’s play and the specs list a much higher recommended amp supply than a 55W push pull.
What do you think? Have you tried the Nimbus White with anything similar?
Guy,
The Joy of God to you,
No, you are not being discriminated against by Ryan for having to wait. Vapor Audio is “under the gun” with success exceeding current capability to make speakers – what a horrible problem, eh? I have been in conversation with Ryan several times and know the maddening delays he’s experienced with third party parts suppliers. Things are moving forward, just not as smoothly as a company with an in house CNC machine, etc.
I have also had delays on my planned Joule White upgrade, some of them due to upgrades Ryan and I have been discussing, and others due the aforementioned issues. I’m not foolish, however, such that I would get pissed off and cancel my order. That would be a dumb move, given the performance level to cost of a Vapor speaker – even after the price increase.
Vapor is not a churn-it-out, cookie cutter speaker manufacturer, but instead a custom speaker builder. The eyes and ears pretty easily see and hear what the result is if an individual can endure some wait time, even if it is extended.
Regarding the 55wpc VTL’s, no, this is not ideal. However, Ryan has run lower powered amps with his speakers at times at shows and they have sounded satisfactory to him. I certainly would not dismiss the speaker for that reason. I would much prefer hearing a superior speaker with a bit underpowered amp, than an inferior speaker with plenty of power. One simply cannot make an inferior speaker take the performance leap to compete well.
Would a higher powered amp result in a different experience? Of course, but I suggest it would be a mistake to turn away from the Vapor speaker simply because it might be underpowered. Would it be “enough”? That’s your determination, but if it wasn’t enough, I would strongly suggest you get a different amp, perhaps upgrade the VTL to another model, rather than dump the Vapor speaker. This is a case where if it doesn’t sound right, you change anything else, not the speaker.
Finally, you might just conclude that with the right cables you prefer the VTL in tetrode with the Vapor. I have had similar changes in preference in regard to an amp’s operational mode when switching speakers. I would certainly not discount that possibility, but would try it!
Blessings,
Douglas Schroeder
Hey Douglas,
Thank you for the informative and kind reply.
I fully acknowledge what you are saying regarding the long lead time duration’s in contrast of the the Vapor product level which by all means seem to be exquisite.
I have no problem with a long wait for a new speaker of this grade, after all, bringing together a proper hi-end system takes a tremendous amount of time & energy and obviously patience.
After reading your review I just made a switch in the state of mind regarding Vapor. 😉
Regarding my current amps,
Well, upgrading was not in the initial plan. I’m very very happy with them.
But as stated, I assumed from first glance at the Nimbus that 55wpc push pull won’t do the job.
So I started investigating, and I regretfully have to say that the Nimbus is becoming ever far from making it to my home.
I’ll explain,
I live in Israel. So I am buying blind.
I spoke to Ryan last year, Vapor does not participate at the annual Munich hi-end show.
They are (at this point) only within US shows.
So for me, listening to them has pretty much become impossible.
Now, we’re looking at ~$15,000 / $20,000 for a pair of Nimbus Whites or Joule (bearing in mind a few upgrades).
Shipping, local tax, import fees, paperwork etc. all come to around $5000-$7000.
I am OK with that.
But, if I end up spending another ~$5000 upgrading the VTL’s it’s just way off budget.
And I must say, there is no scene in this adventure.
All this said with conceptual comprehension that I like the sound.
If not, I’m pretty much screwed (pardon my french).
I’ll wait for Ryan’s reply and see what are he’s thoughts.
I do hope for the best, like I said, I’m keeping an open mind.
All the best!
p.s.
Looking forward to you’r next ‘Vapor’ review!!!